Comments on: The Official MMOMFG Aion Preview http://mmomfg.com/2009/09/17/the-official-mmomfg-aion-preview917/ Your site for video games news, reviews, previews, pew pews and QQs Sat, 31 Jul 2010 21:21:49 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0 By: mmomfgCam http://mmomfg.com/2009/09/17/the-official-mmomfg-aion-preview917/comment-page-/#comment-182 mmomfgCam Sun, 20 Sep 2009 12:10:39 +0000 http://mmomfg.com/?p=1324#comment-182 I think some of you are mistaking me for a WoW player--believe me, I am not. I've even written an article about my issues with grinding in WoW on this site (<a href="http://mmomfg.com/2009/08/grinding-caught-in-the-gears-of-mmorpgs/" rel="nofollow"><a href="http://mmomfg.com/2009/08/grinding-caught-in-the-...</a>" rel="nofollow"><a href="http://mmomfg.com/2009/08/grinding-caught-in-the-...</a></a>" target="_blank">http://mmomfg.com/2009/08/grinding-caught-in-the-...</a></a></a> I really don't care about WoW, and haven't played it consistently in a couple of years. You're saying the same thing nightbloom said though: "Grinding hasn't really bothered me personally." But do you enjoy it? Do you like grinding? Or do you just tolerate it because you like other parts of the game (in this case, Aion). You said grinding bothers people that like to race through a game and not enjoy it, but guess what? I don't enjoy grinding! It sucks. Killing 10 of enemy X over and over again is not fun. Collecting 10 of item X over and over again is not fun. And then you say that having the same start zone is good because you know what to expect and can get through the zone faster. Aren't you the one racing through the game?</a> I think some of you are mistaking me for a WoW player–believe me, I am not. I've even written an article about my issues with grinding in WoW on this site (<a href="http://mmomfg.com/2009/08/grinding-caught-in-the-…” target=”_blank”>http://mmomfg.com/2009/08/grinding-caught-in-the-… I really don't care about WoW, and haven't played it consistently in a couple of years. You're saying the same thing nightbloom said though: "Grinding hasn't really bothered me personally." But do you enjoy it? Do you like grinding? Or do you just tolerate it because you like other parts of the game (in this case, Aion). You said grinding bothers people that like to race through a game and not enjoy it, but guess what? I don't enjoy grinding! It sucks. Killing 10 of enemy X over and over again is not fun. Collecting 10 of item X over and over again is not fun. And then you say that having the same start zone is good because you know what to expect and can get through the zone faster. Aren't you the one racing through the game?

]]> By: mmomfgCam http://mmomfg.com/2009/09/17/the-official-mmomfg-aion-preview917/comment-page-1/#comment-183 mmomfgCam Sun, 20 Sep 2009 06:07:25 +0000 http://mmomfg.com/?p=1324#comment-183 (continued because of length) My point is that it seems to me that for some you, the ends justify the means i.e. you're fine with grinding because you like what it leads to. For me, the means is more important than then ends. I don't care about what I get, I care about what I do. I believe there are better ways to advance players in MMORPG's than grinding, but I think right now most developers focus on the end rewards rather than the mechanism that gets players to those rewards. I don't think leveling in MMORPG's should be easy. They should definitely be challenging. But grinding isn't challenging. It's easy, but boring. The challenge lies in tolerating it long enough to get rewarded. That's not how games should work. (continued because of length)
My point is that it seems to me that for some you, the ends justify the means i.e. you're fine with grinding because you like what it leads to. For me, the means is more important than then ends. I don't care about what I get, I care about what I do. I believe there are better ways to advance players in MMORPG's than grinding, but I think right now most developers focus on the end rewards rather than the mechanism that gets players to those rewards. I don't think leveling in MMORPG's should be easy. They should definitely be challenging. But grinding isn't challenging. It's easy, but boring. The challenge lies in tolerating it long enough to get rewarded. That's not how games should work.

]]> By: NobodySpecial http://mmomfg.com/2009/09/17/the-official-mmomfg-aion-preview917/comment-page-1/#comment-181 NobodySpecial Sat, 19 Sep 2009 18:24:14 +0000 http://mmomfg.com/?p=1324#comment-181 Grinding hasn't really bothered me personally. I think it bothers people that like to race through a game and not really enjoy the game. The problem with wow that i experienced was balancing. I like to roll maybe 2-3 characters but not all classes, because no matter how many start zones there are it still the same o quests( For example: Go kill 10 deer and return it to questman. Versus from another zone "Go kill 10 lions and return to questman".) So having a the same start zone is a plus to me if I wanna roll new toon, why?. Well I can get through the start zone faster having the quests memorized to reach my goal of getting to the pvp or pve aspects of the game. I can care less what the zones in the beginning is gonna be as long as its fun and enjoyable like I experienced in Aion. Aion was a breath of fresh air. Even though I have played in all CB's and OB's over the months doing the same quest and etc... I'm still excited about it and I'm gonna be able to charge ahead of the pack when game releases. Back to WoW, I have been totally unimpressed in the game over the years. When Wotlk came out, I felt ripped off, I bought an expansion and could only play in Naxx. Well when i was 60 before BC, I had already completed naxx. Only difference is in the Wotlk expansion, They made it more elementary, and I wasnt impressed with Uldaar. Bottom Line alot of People have played wow over the years, but really is there anything new in the expansions we have invested in?... I don't think so, other than constant unbalancing. Forced to roll an Alt after completing all the Raids? I rather take a LONG break with Wow and return at a later date, knowing I can in Months have everything my toon can get (epics) and save me some money. We all know the game isnt much of a challenge. Aion I think being new to scene, will bring the fun I been looking for. Thank goodness, because i havent really come across anything fun and exciting in the mmo world. Grinding hasn't really bothered me personally. I think it bothers people that like to race through a game and not really enjoy the game. The problem with wow that i experienced was balancing. I like to roll maybe 2-3 characters but not all classes, because no matter how many start zones there are it still the same o quests( For example: Go kill 10 deer and return it to questman. Versus from another zone "Go kill 10 lions and return to questman".) So having a the same start zone is a plus to me if I wanna roll new toon, why?. Well I can get through the start zone faster having the quests memorized to reach my goal of getting to the pvp or pve aspects of the game. I can care less what the zones in the beginning is gonna be as long as its fun and enjoyable like I experienced in Aion.
Aion was a breath of fresh air. Even though I have played in all CB's and OB's over the months doing the same quest and etc… I'm still excited about it and I'm gonna be able to charge ahead of the pack when game releases.
Back to WoW, I have been totally unimpressed in the game over the years. When Wotlk came out, I felt ripped off, I bought an expansion and could only play in Naxx. Well when i was 60 before BC, I had already completed naxx. Only difference is in the Wotlk expansion, They made it more elementary, and I wasnt impressed with Uldaar.
Bottom Line alot of People have played wow over the years, but really is there anything new in the expansions we have invested in?… I don't think so, other than constant unbalancing. Forced to roll an Alt after completing all the Raids? I rather take a LONG break with Wow and return at a later date, knowing I can in Months have everything my toon can get (epics) and save me some money. We all know the game isnt much of a challenge.
Aion I think being new to scene, will bring the fun I been looking for. Thank goodness, because i havent really come across anything fun and exciting in the mmo world.

]]> By: mmomfgCam http://mmomfg.com/2009/09/17/the-official-mmomfg-aion-preview917/comment-page-1/#comment-180 mmomfgCam Sat, 19 Sep 2009 04:29:11 +0000 http://mmomfg.com/?p=1324#comment-180 Instant gratification for success in a game isn't necessary, but instant gratification for enjoyment in a game is a priority. Instant gratification for success in a game isn't necessary, but instant gratification for enjoyment in a game is a priority.

]]> By: DustinMMOMFG http://mmomfg.com/2009/09/17/the-official-mmomfg-aion-preview917/comment-page-/#comment-179 DustinMMOMFG Sat, 19 Sep 2009 04:23:45 +0000 http://mmomfg.com/?p=1324#comment-179 And he isn't referring to the rap song by Clipse either... I don't enjoy grinding in games, but I can understand it being a means to avoid having quest after quest if you don't want it to be that way. However, developers shouldn't force players to snorishly kill 500 mobs and rinse and repeat because they felt they should cock-block players from reaching higher levels too fast. Everquest 1 made some of their 'next tier' levels so freaking ridiculously hard, that they weeded out the casual from the hardcore, but in all honesty, is alienating a group of players who don't want to deal with grinding and having to sit at your computer for hour after hour to level the way developers should handle their influx of new subscribers? I'm sure it has worked in Asia for Aion already, but as stated previously, Western gamers are more driven by instant gratification, whether that be good or bad, but NCSoft should cater whatever is most popular for launch, so they can maintain these already high subscription numbers. The worst thing that could happen is cause a ridiculous grind to hit max level because there isn't a lot of end-game material and then when the players get there, it still hasn't been fleshed out enough to keep them around. This is all speculation and we'll look forward to seeing how it all plays out. And he isn't referring to the rap song by Clipse either…

I don't enjoy grinding in games, but I can understand it being a means to avoid having quest after quest if you don't want it to be that way. However, developers shouldn't force players to snorishly kill 500 mobs and rinse and repeat because they felt they should cock-block players from reaching higher levels too fast. Everquest 1 made some of their 'next tier' levels so freaking ridiculously hard, that they weeded out the casual from the hardcore, but in all honesty, is alienating a group of players who don't want to deal with grinding and having to sit at your computer for hour after hour to level the way developers should handle their influx of new subscribers? I'm sure it has worked in Asia for Aion already, but as stated previously, Western gamers are more driven by instant gratification, whether that be good or bad, but NCSoft should cater whatever is most popular for launch, so they can maintain these already high subscription numbers.

The worst thing that could happen is cause a ridiculous grind to hit max level because there isn't a lot of end-game material and then when the players get there, it still hasn't been fleshed out enough to keep them around. This is all speculation and we'll look forward to seeing how it all plays out.

]]> By: nightbloom http://mmomfg.com/2009/09/17/the-official-mmomfg-aion-preview917/comment-page-/#comment-177 nightbloom Sat, 19 Sep 2009 03:05:37 +0000 http://mmomfg.com/?p=1324#comment-177 And you get to the core differences between western and eastern style gamers. I dont find grind boring or negative. I do find games where all the achievement is leeched out and everything is easy for everyone to be negative. Aion seems to have just enough west in it to appeal to more than people like me. <a href="http://www.google.com/trends?q=World+of+Warcraft%2C+Aion" target="_blank">http://www.google.com/trends?q=World+of+Warcraft%...</a> <-- that looks nice. And you get to the core differences between western and eastern style gamers. I dont find grind boring or negative. I do find games where all the achievement is leeched out and everything is easy for everyone to be negative.

Aion seems to have just enough west in it to appeal to more than people like me. http://www.google.com/trends?q=World+of+Warcraft%... <– that looks nice.

]]> By: mmomfgCam http://mmomfg.com/2009/09/17/the-official-mmomfg-aion-preview917/comment-page-/#comment-176 mmomfgCam Sat, 19 Sep 2009 02:03:29 +0000 http://mmomfg.com/?p=1324#comment-176 So do you enjoy the grind, or see it as a tolerable means to an end? Certainly there are more productive ways to challenge, or 'weed out' as you say, players that don't involve boring them to death. That's like making a show where the first part is super boring and trying to reward viewers who had the time to suffer through it and hope it got more interesting. I'm not saying that western MMOs are better about this, but I will never think of grinding as anything but a negative. If you want to weed out players, make it too hard for them. That's at least something to be more proud of for players who do make it to higher levels. So do you enjoy the grind, or see it as a tolerable means to an end? Certainly there are more productive ways to challenge, or 'weed out' as you say, players that don't involve boring them to death. That's like making a show where the first part is super boring and trying to reward viewers who had the time to suffer through it and hope it got more interesting. I'm not saying that western MMOs are better about this, but I will never think of grinding as anything but a negative. If you want to weed out players, make it too hard for them. That's at least something to be more proud of for players who do make it to higher levels.

]]> By: nightbloom http://mmomfg.com/2009/09/17/the-official-mmomfg-aion-preview917/comment-page-/#comment-175 nightbloom Sat, 19 Sep 2009 00:55:35 +0000 http://mmomfg.com/?p=1324#comment-175 Because like all Korean MMOs, the game is grind based, despite it's veneer. They expect you to rush the lower levels with the single-mindedness that most east gamers are known for. Eastern MMOs are more goal oriented and make you jump through hoops to get what you want. Western MMOs take a different tack and just give you what you want from the beginning, use questing to level and kinda soften the competition. I kinda prefer the more Darwinian approach to gaming that eastern titles deliver.... Weeds out the weak ones before they hit level 20. Because like all Korean MMOs, the game is grind based, despite it's veneer. They expect you to rush the lower levels with the single-mindedness that most east gamers are known for. Eastern MMOs are more goal oriented and make you jump through hoops to get what you want. Western MMOs take a different tack and just give you what you want from the beginning, use questing to level and kinda soften the competition. I kinda prefer the more Darwinian approach to gaming that eastern titles deliver…. Weeds out the weak ones before they hit level 20.

]]> By: mmomfgBrandon http://mmomfg.com/2009/09/17/the-official-mmomfg-aion-preview917/comment-page-/#comment-174 mmomfgBrandon Fri, 18 Sep 2009 23:44:02 +0000 http://mmomfg.com/?p=1324#comment-174 I would say you have a fair criticism, and one that I tried to specifically admit during the preview. The article is a collection of thoughts on the initial gameplay experience of Aion. My experience is that based on what I played, I had no interest in continuing to play to later levels. Other people's opinions will of course vary. If the PvP experience is so integral to Aion as you suggest, I would ask you why it takes so long to get into it. PvP is the key aspect of Warhammer Online, and is possible to be immersed in that experience from level 1. Even WoW, where PvP is largely an afterthought, allows you to PvP at level 10. I would say you have a fair criticism, and one that I tried to specifically admit during the preview. The article is a collection of thoughts on the initial gameplay experience of Aion. My experience is that based on what I played, I had no interest in continuing to play to later levels. Other people's opinions will of course vary.

If the PvP experience is so integral to Aion as you suggest, I would ask you why it takes so long to get into it. PvP is the key aspect of Warhammer Online, and is possible to be immersed in that experience from level 1. Even WoW, where PvP is largely an afterthought, allows you to PvP at level 10.

]]> By: JustinMMOMFG http://mmomfg.com/2009/09/17/the-official-mmomfg-aion-preview917/comment-page-/#comment-173 JustinMMOMFG Fri, 18 Sep 2009 23:26:56 +0000 http://mmomfg.com/?p=1324#comment-173 Except, this is a preview, not a review. Except, this is a preview, not a review.

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